Technical question on brake rotors+pads.

D

Da_Rebel

Just another guy
Mar 8, 2012
183
1
0
Sanger, TX
Okay, so I was talking today to my friend about getting some new pads+rotors for the truck. I was saying that what I would like to do is get Brembo Rotors, Hawk Performance pads.

He then asked me a question: "If the stock braking system is capable of locking the tires, what is the point of getting pads and rotors that say, for example. "Over 50% improvement over stock!" Do they really make that much of a difference? If so, how? It doesn't make sense. The quickest way to stop is by locking all four tires, but you'll powerslide, a.k.a. lose steering control. ABS lengthens your stopping distance, but leaves you in control. How does paying so much more for "good" pads and rotors stop you quicker?"

I have to admit, this kind of stumped me. I'd like to see what you all think of this. Maybe there's something the both of us are missing. I thought maybe running 20's would justify it, but then again, it may not be worth the price.

Have at it!
 
Friction I think is the name of the game, how long it takes you to stop is a result of friction, weight, traction.. Better friction will result in decreased stopping time

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Mettalikatt said:
Friction I think is the name of the game, how long it takes you to stop is a result of friction, weight, traction.. Better friction will result in decreased stopping time
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Understandably, yes. But how do aftermarket pads and rotors get "better friction?" I would understand if they were upgraded in regards to size, but we're talking about a stock braking system. The pads and rotors are going to be the same size as stock, so there is no "more" friction being added to the rotor.

Jared said:
6 piston calipers or bust
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I'd like to, but it's not worth the money. You'd need some kind of "rally Silverado" to need brakes like that.
 
Drilled rotors are for looks, they actually crack if you use them hard like a road course. Slotted help some but most do for looks.
Locking your brakes and sliding will NOT stop faster than abs working properly. Same principle as smoking your tires on a launch.
Good pads will have better initial bite, warm up quicker, etc. They are more important for someone who autox, road races etc,,, that is braking hard at speeds higher than 40 and also have grippy tires that wont lock so easily.

Generally i would say they are a waste if your stock brakes are good enough for you. If you have big ghetto wheels, big tires, tow, race- i would say it is worth it.
 
Jared said:
6 piston calipers or bust
Click to expand...

:word:


Da_Rebel said:
I'd like to, but it's not worth the money. You'd need some kind of "rally Silverado" to need brakes like that.
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Not at all, I didn't have a "rally" truck and the stock brakes were shit once I added the extra weight of the new wheels and tires on my Silvy.

4580620270_01893b2a1c_z.jpg


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DirtyBlackHD said:
Locking your brakes and sliding will NOT stop faster than abs working properly. Same principle as smoking your tires on a launch.
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How do you stop faster with ABS as opposed to sliding? I would think that with sliding you're using the force of all four tires to stop. Shouldn't you stop faster from all the friction you're putting down to the road?

I'm not trying to troll, I'd like to understand the principles of it all.
 
when you are sliding, you lose control of the vehicle's steering, the main reason for ABS is to retain control of the direction while still stopping. If you want to upgrade, just get nice pads like EBC, you could to calipers but they're expensive..
 
serious note, there is a thread on pt.net about swapping to SUV rear brakes and 05+ brakes up front for our trucks!!!!!!!
 
05-12 front brakes calipers, pads and rotors will fit on any of the 99+ NBS trucks. 99-04 had a single piston, 11" rotors where the 05+ has dual piston 12" rotors IIRC. The 05+ Rotors also have a good bit more pad contact area than the 99-04 which equals better stopping also. The only thing you will need for the front to mount the larger calipers is the caliper bracket and you are good to go.
 
hawk and carbotech both make some of the more trusted pads. if you go to either site and read up, they will explain the difference in compounds.

Once your tires are locked up, you are actually increasing your stopping distance as opposed to tires that are not locked. Not to mention flat spotting(destroying) your tires.
 
BOO5TED said:
Not at all, I didn't have a "rally" truck and the stock brakes were shit once I added the extra weight of the new wheels and tires on my Silvy.
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How much heavier is your tire\wheel combo compared to mine? Specs are in my sig. I'm all for upgrading, but I need to be able to explain why I did it.

Mettalikatt said:
when you are sliding, you lose control of the vehicle's steering, the main reason for ABS is to retain control of the direction while still stopping.
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Very true, however, you sacrifice stopping distance for the ability to veer around objects. You would still stop faster with locked brakes.

DirtyBlackHD said:
Once your tires are locked up, you are actually increasing your stopping distance as opposed to tires that are not locked. Not to mention flat spotting(destroying) your tires.
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I'm afraid I still don't understand how that works. If your brakes are engaging/disengaging very quickly over a small amount of time, I don't see how that could slow you down faster than locked brakes. Shouldn't you stop faster from all the friction you're putting down to the road with all 4 tires locked and dragging on the ground?
 
You lose friction when sliding, and stopping without steering control is useless. Not sure if being trolled now

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Mettalikatt said:
You lose friction when sliding, and stopping without steering control is useless. Not sure if being trolled now
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Most definitely not trolling. It just doesn't make sense to me. You lost the friction on the pads, but gain the friction from all the tires... Are you saying that you get better friction using ABS force on the pads + rotors as opposed to the friction of all 4 tires on the pavement?
 
Forget about the ABS, that's for people that don't know how to properly modulate their brakes in a panic stop. More government requirement bullshit.

Not being an ass here, just trying to explain. I think you're stuck too much on the friction aspect of it. There are far more variables to consider IE rotating mass, heat energy, sprung weight, unsprung weight, etc as well as friction. The fact is, a vehicle that is able to come to a stop without locking down the brakes stops quicker and in a shorter distance than one that locks the brakes up.

Think about a huge, heavy box on a floor. Start out pushing easy, and slowly increase your pushing effort. Right before the box actually moves is when it has the highest coefficient of friction. It's not moving, but it has the greatest amount of force being placed on it, therefore is transferring that into the floor. Once you break that point, the box is much easier to move. Tires are the same, when you're at the point where you're braking extremely hard, but just shy of locking them up, you're getting maximum stopping power. Once you cross that threshold, stopping power is greatly reduced and the truck is now sliding just like the box.

This graph is a good example, the straight upward sloping line is the braking force and the peak is right when the tires lock up. Once you've crested that peak, the braking energy is much smaller. All you're doing is creating a lot of heat and destroying tires.

physics.gif
 
Rebel, not sure what your setup weighs but the 295/55-20 Trail Grapplers run 73 lbs and the wheels(Centerline or the Welds) were 22 lbs.


Mettalikatt said:
I might look into that 05+ swap!

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What year is your truck? I thought it was an 05. :think:
 
Thanks Huck, your post explains it very well. Your box example helps visualize it, you were right; I was too hung up on the friction idea. I appreciate it.

BOO5TED said:
Rebel, not sure what your setup weighs but the 295/55-20 Trail Grapplers run 73 lbs and the wheels(Centerline or the Welds) were 22 lbs.
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Ok, thanks. I'll weigh mine tomorrow and if they're similar, I'm going to look into possibly upgrade sizes. Maybe on the upgrade kits from SSBC.
 
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